audio recordings from a forum talk thing @ Dignity International (what is left of democracy)

on Wednesday night, 17 August 2011. there was an introduction talk and discussion on socialism and democracy.

there were two main speakers on the topic, faud and nasir. i recorded it and i am sharing it, if people are interested to listen to the talk / discussion.

personally i felt bored with the talk from the speakers, things only begun to spark during the Q & A. one important note i have to made, all the socialist ideals proclaimed during the talk are not a solely socialist phenomenon. freedom, equality, solidarity and justice, are a common humanist ideas which exist in many “discipline”, the Athenian democracy model has such ideas but only for privileged men and they employ slaves, pre-marxian people have expounded on it, feminist has expanded on the discourse, post-modernist have dissected these human values and shun a different light. and so on. ¬†socialism does not own any of these “ideals”, i’m saying it because the talk does sounded like [This IS socialism and if you agree on these ideals, which one can easily relate – as a general “all loving all caring humanist”, you are a “socialist”, because our definition is better.] to some extent, perhaps yes one is a “socialist”, but there are other connotation and entailment of being a “socialist” and it is not talked about in these ideals.

as much as people wants to distinguish the differences between the different “socialism” in ideology and practice, the connection are closer than one wants apart. they are related, the practice (states for example, russia, china, parts of europe etc) are some how rooted in these ideals of the -ism.

another note, i find it interesting that the notion communism is never mentioned in the forum. perhaps, the connotation of militant, and arms, or state examples that have been oppressive? i am not sure. i wonder why when marx was mentioned a few times and i do get the impression he is like the god of socialism (in this particular context) of course i am adding dramatization and i may have exaggerated- but i think i did got a hint from nasir that the marx’s work is the main doctrine of this particular brand of socialism or at least his own definition. but i’m pretty sure marx self proclaimed to be a communist. be mindful, there are literary perhaps in the hundred of different “socialism” different inclination, different methodology and so on. from a fascist type socialism , libertarian socialism, green socialism, authoritarian socialism, social democracy, to a facade of ideological narcissism .

here’s the links

i have slipt it in three files, AAC files (.m4a)

first speaker faud—————

second speaker nasir———–

and open comments and question and discussion——

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